There are no thinking citizens here; there is no future for India: UG


The New Indian Express, Interview, Thursday, May 20, 1999

By H. R. Ranganath


Free thinker, iconoclast, philosopher U G Krishnamurthi usually holds forth on life and its meaninglessness, on the mind and its non-existence. This time H R Ranganath made him speak out on politics. And UG has been at his demolishing best. Excerpts:


Another election is upon us. What should a thinking citizen do?


I am sorry, there are no thinking citizens in this country. If Sonia Gandhi becomes Prime Minister then I will give up my citizenship of this country. In fact, I am now asking Swiss authorities to permit me to stay there as a permanent resident. I have not been a resident of any country ever since Nehru took over.


The worst that has happened to this country is Nehru becoming Prime Minister. Look at this man. He spent a better part of his life in prison. To kill time he wrote a few books. Later, he ruled this country for a very long time. But what has he done for this poor country? As Prime Minister he only helped the middle class prosper.


What is wrong in helping the middle class?


Nothing. But look at the plight of the common man. All that he wants is food, shelter and clothing.


Have we given him that? No. The poor have remained poor. And yet we claim we have prospered in the last five decades.


Show me one great thing we have achieved in the last 50 years. We are a nation with almost one billion people. And yet we do not have any say in international matters. Nobody cares for us. This is most disgraceful.


When Clinton imposed sanctions, we did not even have the guts to stand up and say, “Who are you?”


Today if any country has to progress it has to have two things. Economic strength and military might. If you don't have these, nobody gives a damn. When P V Narasimha Rao visited the United States the local media did not even mention his visit. So our consulate released full-page advertisements to announce his arrival. We did not protest, we even accepted all the humiliation heaped on us. The Prime Minister was not even introduced properly in the Joint Session. They did not even mention his name. They merely said, ‘The Prime Minister of India will speak now.’ Even then, we did not protest. What a shame! In the last 50 years we should have learnt lessons. But we have not.


You hate the whole Nehru family?


Not just that family. I also have no love for Mahatma Gandhi. It was he who created Pakistan. In fact, he pleaded with Nehru to agree for Partition. Partition has brought this country today to this stage. The British used these people to their advantage.


Why should we have the name of Gandhi for everything in this country? I am sick of this.


You should remember one thing. If Hitler had not destroyed the empires, then we would not have got freedom. So let's stop saying that only Gandhi got us freedom. In fact, I don't like India's currency also. Because on every note you have a picture of Gandhi.


I never had a soft corner for Gandhi. I had even told him this. I appreciate his non-violence movement. Because, at that time he could not have done anything better, thanks to our impotency. Due to his movement, thousands lost their lives.


I have personally seen how the British killed people. Now more or less we are doing the same in Kashmir. Why should Kashmir be part of India?


See, I am against everything that is north of Vindhyas. I oppose Hindi. In fact I don't eat anything that comes from that part of the country. You know till today I have not seen any of Mahesh Bhatt's movies. Because all of them are made in Hindi, though I have the knowledge of Hindi to fool them all.


But surely you must agree that adherence to a dynasty ensures stability?


What stability? During this so-called stable period only the middle class prospered. I have repeatedly told people in the Government that we should look towards China. This country is better than all the Western countries put together. I knew Russia would collapse. This I had said in 1960, I repeated myself several times. But nobody believed me.


After my stay in China I went to immigration officials. Unfortunately, I have an Indian passport and so the trouble began. I tell you, if one has an Indian passport then one has to face a lot of problems. I carry an Indian passport for purposes of traveling only, nothing patriotic.


The only reason I love this country is that an NRI – ‘Non-reliable Indian’ – can keep money here and make a lot of interest. That is the only attraction I have with India.


Okay so you don't like Gandhi, Nehru. What about Indira?


How can I like her, she tried her best to finish me. When I was attacking Jiddu Krishnamurthy she harassed me like anything. In fact, she even tried to poison me. She tried to use RAW against me, and the Russians thought I was a CIA agent.


All right, but what's wrong if she becomes Prime Minister?


If her claim rests only on the daughter-in-law status, then bring other foreign women too. There are better women than her. Only because her name has the Gandhi tag, you can't allow her.


I want to know about all the money she has. If somebody offers me 98 per cent of the money she has abroad then I will help get all the money she has kept outside.


You see (laughs), I am a very influential man.


I think she has been dragged into this by the Congress… Congressmen who can't stay without power. She was not in favor of entering politics. But I tell you even Congressmen are against her… My only advise to her is, if she is intelligent, she should go to her country and enjoy all the money she has.


On the one hand you demolish the Congress. Then you attack Vajpayee. What then is the alternative?


I don't give any alternative. I may suggest dictatorship. But, I will not subscribe to the BJP's thinking. We don't want these fundamentals to grow. You see, they are reviving Rama, Sita and Krishna. In those times, they were only religious heroes.


The common man needs food, not heroes.


Sometimes I feel the Army should take over. But today even the Indian army is not good enough.


India can never produce a leader like Mao Tse-tung. Why do we need this Democracy? We don't want this. It's a very expensive experiment.


I want to know why did he (Vajpayee) allow that lady (Jayalalitha) to go on and on. He should have walked out. By staying in power for 13 months what did he achieve? He should have just quit. But he did not have the guts. In fact, I am on the side of that lady and Laloo. Because, for them corruption is a way of life.


Can't we treat the bomb, the missile as achievements?


Then, why does your Prime Minister dither on the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty?


So where are we headed?


I don't see any future for this country. Somehow we will survive. Because, people have to survive. Apart from that we don't have any future. Future as in – we will not play any major role in world affairs.


India can't produce Mao. We can't get a benevolent dictator. The Army is incapable of ruling us. No sir, this country has no future.


You once said politicians thrive on the gullibility of the people. Why are people so gullible?


That is their culture. We are basically ‘wordsmiths’. Today if anybody has any talent then they must quit this country. If they stay back, it will only be a waste of talent. In this country the human brain has no place.

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